tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post4689080296521070119..comments2023-11-03T09:36:22.100-04:00Comments on In From the Cold: What Happened at Minot--an In From the Cold Special ReportGeorge Smileyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07049707648660651119noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-77611120402760885762010-01-15T22:31:01.019-05:002010-01-15T22:31:01.019-05:00I would like to inform one and all about my new no...I would like to inform one and all about my new novel The Minot Mission - at Trafford.com, Barnes & Noble and Amazon -- Stephen Knightstormcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12006597788773662690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-68009583141385439082009-08-12T08:58:32.659-04:002009-08-12T08:58:32.659-04:00Retired IYAAYAS 461 - 2W0 assigned to that WSA fro...Retired IYAAYAS 461 - 2W0 assigned to that WSA from 1997 to 2000. I was in total shock & disbelief when I heard. 20 years experience in this arena and I absolutely have no doubt that so many levels of failure were involved. Everyone involved in management and execution of the transfer(from the initial message to designate, configure, segregate, transport, load, preflight, etc.) of these trainers failed. Canning CO's and Chief was totally justified!!! Shame on you all-you have failed our nation, Air Force, and those who worked so hard to train you to do your duty.IYAAYAS-REThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03586553009787557598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-31118277548124258702009-08-12T08:57:01.940-04:002009-08-12T08:57:01.940-04:00Retired IYAAYAS 461 - 2W0 assigned to that WSA fro...Retired IYAAYAS 461 - 2W0 assigned to that WSA from 1997 to 2000. I was in total shock & disbelief when I heard. 20 years experience in this arena and I absolutely have no doubt that so many levels of failure were involved. Everyone involved in management and execution of the transfer(from the initial message to designate, configure, segregate, transport, load, preflight, etc.) of these trainers failed. Canning CO's and Chief was totally justified!!! Shame on you all-you have failed our nation, Air Force, and those who worked so hard to train you to do your duty.IYAAYAS-REThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03586553009787557598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-33677421996169428562009-06-11T03:37:28.611-04:002009-06-11T03:37:28.611-04:00I have an idea for those of you who claim to be &q...I have an idea for those of you who claim to be "experts" and "former 2W2's"....you old S.O.B's are lying unless you called yourself a 463...and if you didn't, it means you got out or were kicked out for SUCKING AT YOUR JOB! Which implies that YOU were part of the problem which you preach so loudly against in anonymity. Anyway, back to my idea. Why don't you move on with your life? If you're "in exile" it means you couldn't handle your job and were probably one of the SNCO's who got fired, but still got to keep your line number for SMSgt. If you're a "former weapons inspector" it means you don't know what the new regulations say. Let me say this: I challenge....no, I DARE any of you to take me and my boys on in a MX tech op. The 2W2's at Minot right now are the best we've ever seen. Did that sound too angry?Bay Chief JSOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15291799421622810400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-51264151395995491532008-08-27T10:14:00.000-04:002008-08-27T10:14:00.000-04:00oI know Colonel Cynthia Lundell from a previous as...oI know Colonel Cynthia Lundell from a previous assignment. Lack of good judgment is her trademark. I do not believe for one second that she did not know there were problems, but true to form, she'll blame her predecessor in lieu of taking thre responsibility. I have to wonder if she even realizes now the seriousness of this "breach." I am grateful that this time, she got the axe and not some poor NCO doing the job with very little to do it with.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16650621461494136263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-27407265636801636422008-06-22T05:39:00.000-04:002008-06-22T05:39:00.000-04:00fmrfrd- Actually, I think the "nuclear weapons sp...fmrfrd-<BR/><BR/> Actually, I think the "nuclear weapons specialist" DOES know what he's talking about. Yes, we all know that a chief isn't supposed to be a wrench-turner. Staff sergeants aren't even supposed to be turning a wrench. But we all know that if you don't know how something is put together, you don't know if it is right or not. (That could apply to a weapon or a car or just the way the organization is put together.) <BR/><BR/> As far as the women speaking to women thing, I can tell you that it is well known that when Chief Langlois was a CDCs (Career Development Courses) back in 1996, she took every single female 2W2X1 going through tech school into her office and gave them a speech about being a female 2w2. She has always been someone who has tried to use her position as a female to earn her staus instead of being a mediocre enlisted person in a competitive environment; she always gave the impression of someone who wanted to be remembered as the WOMAN who made it big, not as a person. Stop and remember that favoring either gender IS discrimination. <BR/><BR/> SNCOs are suppoed to be better than NCOs and airmen. And if you claim 24 years as a SNCO, you are delusional, to say the least. Perhaps you meant 24 years enlisted, which is very different. And how long did it take you to make SSgt and MSgt? <BR/><BR/> Mistakes WERE made. I can only see it as systematic failure of first the command structure, then the training, and finally of the individuals integrity in performing procedures in the manner the know to be correct. <BR/><BR/> I can say that this sort of incident could not have happened if even one person involved in the total process would have followed all of the right procedures. The whole two-person concept is meant to keep any one person from making a mistake with nuclear weapons.2w2-in-exilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163655729544048296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-46115172475297287232008-06-12T16:06:00.000-04:002008-06-12T16:06:00.000-04:00Jesus H Christ. I was an 411X0 EMT ICBM Team Chie...Jesus H Christ. I was an 411X0 EMT ICBM Team Chief with the 44OMMS as Ellsworth, SD and NOTHING like this ever happened. When the (01st) SMES arrived we were ready and always up to the task. Two-man policy and PRP were always to the letter.<BR/><BR/>Buddy, this Chief needs to be put out on her butt. What a waste of Pay Grade, High Heels, and Lipstick...<BR/><BR/>Retired E-7<BR/>Benbenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03782829631888336629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-52548160975978579112008-06-12T16:05:00.000-04:002008-06-12T16:05:00.000-04:00Jesus H Christ. I was an 411X0 EMT ICBM Team Chie...Jesus H Christ. I was an 411X0 EMT ICBM Team Chief with the 44OMMS as Ellsworth, SD and NOTHING like this ever happened. When the (01st) SMES arrived we were ready and always up to the task. Two-man policy and PRP were always to the letter.<BR/><BR/>Buddy, this Chief needs to be put out on her butt. What a waste of Pay Grade, High Heels, and Lipstick...<BR/><BR/>Retired E-7<BR/>Benbenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03782829631888336629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-45124910200351319902008-05-01T09:56:00.000-04:002008-05-01T09:56:00.000-04:00[sarcasm on] What do you expect, all the good bagg...[sarcasm on] <BR/>What do you expect, all the good baggage handlers work for the airlines. <BR/>With the over whelming number of bombers being loaded 24x7, you've got to expect some mistakes.<BR/>[sarcasm off]<BR/><BR/>As an afsc 31274 in the 70s we were constantly being hammered by SAC, 3901st, 15th AF, IG, and 12th AF surprise inspections twice a year by each. We spent a minimum of 8 hours of training on a simulator every 60 days. Any screw-up meant loosing ones certification and tons of remedial training.. Not fun. Then take into account an E-3 at the time was making <$170 a month.<BR/>A quote.. <BR/><B>The 3901st Strategic Missile Evaluation Squadron, keepers and defenders of the faith. This was SAC's missile Praetorian Guards, or, in the opinion of some, SAC's version of the S.S. The 3901st was tasked with evaluating all SAC missile crews based upon the concept of "standardization." The 3901st was like a cold virus, unavoidable and unwelcome.</B><BR/><BR/>From what I understand in reading the General's report, these morons got so lazy they started poorly marking the nukes. Making them nearly impossible to identify.. This is sounds more like an admin problem. <BR/>However one would think the ass hats would take a little more pride in their job and show some initiative.Scrugehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02062616895854902936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-46834650395902134172008-05-01T09:20:00.000-04:002008-05-01T09:20:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Scrugehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02062616895854902936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-70006752281861223612008-02-11T21:31:00.000-05:002008-02-11T21:31:00.000-05:00Having been a late cold war nuke guy, who was stat...Having been a late cold war nuke guy, who was stationed at Grand Forks in field level maintenance, spent time in depot level maintenance and in USAFE (GLCM). Even as a first termer, I had tons of experience with logistical movements and just cannot get my mind around how this could even happen. I cant understand how no one at any of the many steps/checks involved in "moving" warheads and/or their delivery vehicles didnt say "what the heck is going on here?" Blows my mind! God help us all.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060481448432686007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-76920007481130743602008-02-11T21:29:00.000-05:002008-02-11T21:29:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060481448432686007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-28527606144789762662008-01-29T09:22:00.000-05:002008-01-29T09:22:00.000-05:00Meh.As far as the officers go... they're 21M which...Meh.<BR/><BR/>As far as the officers go... they're 21M which is munitions maintenance and one career field covers conventional and special weapons. <BR/><BR/>The enlisted folks are 2W2s and are nuclear weapons specialists. I agree that the career field is rapidly turning into a backwater. That said, the one Chief stripe that came out this year is proportional to the number of eligibles. It's not like there were 1,000 2W2 E-8s competing for it.<BR/><BR/>The munitions flight CMSgt sets an important tone. You're either in charge or you're not, and you're either responsible or you're not. If your folks mishandle six nukes on your watch then you suck as a Chief. That's not a judgment call, that's a fact.<BR/><BR/>Weapon storage areas tend to get lax if they don't have aggressive leaders. Behind a triple fence, in a locked building and inside a locked bay 2W2s often don't get the supervision they deserve.Pigasushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13128366835889609148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-78441044837785483852008-01-28T16:57:00.000-05:002008-01-28T16:57:00.000-05:00I'm a former aviation Marine NCO.Putting someone i...I'm a former aviation Marine NCO.<BR/><BR/>Putting someone into a NCOIC slot after 7 years out of specialty strikes me as a recipe for disaster.<BR/><BR/>When I was in the USMC, we had a nearly ironclad rule that forbade assigning people out of specialty for more than 3 years. The few times that someone did break the rule, we quickly regretted it.Ken Prescotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13779589712239613030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-52240329833170645362008-01-28T11:57:00.000-05:002008-01-28T11:57:00.000-05:00Sorry about that mishmash above. I meant to write,...Sorry about that mishmash above. I meant to write, Outstanding reporting. I've linked to this post on my blog.Susan Katz Keatinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02845243348450785066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-9061017505791849582008-01-28T11:55:00.000-05:002008-01-28T11:55:00.000-05:00Ouhttp://susankatzkeating.blogspot.com/2008/01/loo...Ouhttp://susankatzkeating.blogspot.com/2008/01/loose-nukes-special-report.htmltstanding reporting. I've linked to this on my blog.Susan Katz Keatinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02845243348450785066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-14273066142313693792008-01-28T08:43:00.000-05:002008-01-28T08:43:00.000-05:00Fmrfed--I think you miss the point of the article ...Fmrfed--I think you miss the point of the article (and the comments). No one was suggesting that the chief at Minot do the actual maintenance; rather, it was the failure of her management "team" that was a major, contributing factor to the accident. In the aftermath of the mishap, her leadership and management should be (rightfully) questioned. <BR/><BR/>Beyond that, someone has to ask about officer leadership as well--beyond the group and squadron commanders who were fired. According to sources familiar with the situation, the same field grade and company grade officers are still in place and most (apparently) escaped punishment. Why should anyone expect them to be more effective this time around?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12712369389411084085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-64451689979743983152008-01-28T07:21:00.000-05:002008-01-28T07:21:00.000-05:00It is utterly impossible that the aircrew, groundc...It is utterly impossible that the aircrew, groundcrew, maintenance staff, arms depot staff, flight control tower and everyone right up to the CIC did not know that live nuclear weapons were loaded on the B52. IMPOSSIBLE. This is a much more serious issue than a breakdown in procedures. The nutroots over at Daily Kos have better explanations. A really in depth investigation by the FBI is in order.sykes.1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10954672321945289871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-29474844498337722342008-01-26T15:58:00.000-05:002008-01-26T15:58:00.000-05:00fmrfed -I have some experience in these matters, h...fmrfed -<BR/><BR/>I have some experience in these matters, having a doctorate in experimental nuclear physics. (No, nothing to do with bombs, nor even nuclear power. Atom smashers.) And I tell you true:<BR/><BR/>One idiot with a screwdriver can foul things up so bad even the Chief Master Scientist (as it were) will need weeks to fix the problems.<BR/><BR/>It's true "Literally anyone can be taught to turn screws..." But that doesn't mean they know which screws to turn, in which order, nor how hard to turn them. When the subject is as critical as atomic bombs, atom smashers, or chemical refineries - you <B>need</B> a sprinkling of top-end people in among the screwdriver turners.<BR/><BR/>"Management," <I>PFAUGH!</I>.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03261789167232483497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-13213151174347751362008-01-26T11:16:00.000-05:002008-01-26T11:16:00.000-05:00I could only read half of this trash job; it is ob...I could only read half of this trash job; it is obvious to me the "nuclear weapons specialist" so often quoted is not as familiar with Air Force operations and leadership skills as he professes.<BR/><BR/>He complains that Chief Master Sergeants [Chiefs] -- the highest enlisted paygrade -- were not utilized in the lower grade postitions; field jobs, in other words. To do that would be a complete waste of a Chief, whose expertise lies in management far above that of turning a screwdriver. Literally anyone can be taught to turn screws; few can learn a Chief's job. At the risk of repeating myself, Chiefs are like CEOs; they are worth and earn their big bucks several times over.<BR/><BR/>As such, they have jobs relating to not just their former specific work details [their job description is much broader than that] but to leadership and management as well. They roam far afield in their taskings -- women speaking to women about their jobs and possible jobs is not unusual in today's diverse military.<BR/><BR/>To trash Chiefs and other Senior NCOs -- the top three enlisted grades -- by Monday morning quarterbacking is unworthy of a former SNCO. Especially one who professes to be a leader himself and admits being unfamiliar with Minot ops.<BR/><BR/>I speak as a retired government federal agent of 40+ years experience, 24 of which were served on active duty as a SNCO. The last 18 were as a mid-level civil servant reporting directly to the Air Staff. I didn't just assist<BR/>in writing security operations regs, I wrote them.<BR/><BR/>Mistakes were made, obviously. Trashing 60 or 70 men and women in uniform was an unworthy, cheap shot IMO. One must wonder what the "nuclear maintenance inspector" did during his Minot taskings.FmrFedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10009714824714349949noreply@blogger.com