tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post1762753681422265859..comments2023-11-03T09:36:22.100-04:00Comments on In From the Cold: A Sense of Proportionality, PleaseGeorge Smileyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07049707648660651119noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-20101497542572228752007-10-30T16:04:00.000-04:002007-10-30T16:04:00.000-04:00Yikes, try again!The attempt by CBS and the nutroo...Yikes, try again!<BR/><BR/>The attempt by CBS and the nutroots to equate civilian casualties caused by the Taliban & Al Qaeda's willingness to surround themselves and hide among civilians <B>with the civilian casualties which the US military tries to avoid</B> could have drastic consequences.Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894804057503600159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-89866893748631849582007-10-30T16:01:00.000-04:002007-10-30T16:01:00.000-04:00The attempt by CBS and the nutroots to equate civi...The attempt by CBS and the nutroots to equate civilian casualties caused by the Taliban & Al Qaeda's willingness to surround themselves and hide among civilians (making Tal/AQ illegal combatants per the Geneva Conventions) could have drastic consequences.<BR/><BR/>If the US, due to political weakness, chooses to further restrict the ROE to not allow for close air support against the enemy if civilians are in the vicinity will only result in AQ and the Taliban in <A HREF="http://www.rovianconspiracy.com/2007/10/what-do-you-get-when-you-let-left-lead.html" REL="nofollow">increasing the presence of innocent civilians around them</A>.<BR/><BR/>Great post!<BR/><BR/>St Wendeler<BR/><A HREF="http://www.rovianconspiracy.com" REL="nofollow">Another Rovian Conspiracy</A>Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894804057503600159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-24134507664081050042007-10-30T09:08:00.000-04:002007-10-30T09:08:00.000-04:00Joker--I'm not sure it's a false choice. Accordin...Joker--I'm not sure it's a false choice. According to commanders on the ground, airpower has been decisive in smashing AQ/Taliban "units" before they can attack coalition forces. Had we not ramped up the air campaign earlier this year, the situation in Afghanistan might be far different. <BR/><BR/>Your points about COIN are correct; however, the perceptions battle is also shaped (to some degree) by that small diameter bomb or JDAM blasting that mud hut and eliminating the local Taliban leader--the same guy who's been terrorizing locals for the past few months. That teaches that the U.S. is patient and eventually, we will catch up with the bad guys and take them out. <BR/><BR/>I also appreciate President Karzai's difficult position, but I'd still like to ask him the question: would you be willing to trade airpower for another 20 or 30,000 U.S. troops, with the knowledge that there are some areas of the country that they can never reach, or reach only with great difficulty. Would that enhance his nation's security? <BR/><BR/>Finally, as we've observed in the past, there is the difficult issue of separating the friendlies from the terrorists. There have been documented cases of the Taliban pulling their dead fighters (and weapons) from the wreckage of an airstrike, leaving behind the civilians who were killed when the terrorists took refuge in their homes--at gunpoint. <BR/><BR/>Additionally, we certainly never said that the village "deserved" the airstrike, but if a local Taliban leader was living there, it was far from a pro-government hamlet.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12712369389411084085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-19474598215823406892007-10-30T08:34:00.000-04:002007-10-30T08:34:00.000-04:00"Karzai certainly does have political reasons (not..."Karzai certainly does have political reasons (not to mention he was wounded by a US mistaken airstrike in the early stages of OEF)"<BR/><BR/>As I recall Americans were also injured in the attack.davodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09272330967156237637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-53529878539077776762007-10-29T22:57:00.000-04:002007-10-29T22:57:00.000-04:00Mr. Joker, Spook86 did not say: "Either we condu...Mr. Joker,<BR/> Spook86 did not say: "Either we conduct air strikes or the Taliban take over Afghanistan" Nor did he suggest they somehow deserved it.Dan Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537284485911568269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10820485.post-17194406754352853602007-10-29T16:50:00.000-04:002007-10-29T16:50:00.000-04:00You really pose a false choice that only clouds th...You really pose a false choice that only clouds the issue: Either we conduct air strikes or the Taliban take over Afghanistan. You also speculate about this village that was attacked suggesting that they somehow deserved it.<BR/><BR/>Certainly the vast majority of airstrikes - the ones you don't hear about - are both legitimate and effective, but one has to acknowledge the damage mistakes do to our cause. COIN is ultimately not about killing. We can't kill our way to winning in Afghanistan. Perceptions matter and the attitudes and loyalties of the locals matter and sometimes they matter more than killing a couple of guys with AK's in a village.<BR/><BR/>Karzai certainly does have political reasons (not to mention he was wounded by a US mistaken airstrike in the early stages of OEF) for wanting to throttle back air power - and as an AF Veteran with two tours in Afghanistan under my belt I think his concerns are legitimate.<BR/><BR/>First of all, is he the leader of a democratic Afghanistan or isn't he? If he is, then we need to heed his concerns, even if we don't agree. That's what "sovereignty" is all about.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, as a democratically elected leader, he'd be shirking his duties to NOT listen to his electorate - and, like it or not, legitimate or not - they are increasingly pissed-off at what they see as US carelessness and disregard in the use of airpower.<BR/><BR/>So overall, as an air power advocate, I thought the 60 minutes piece was balanced.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05924320590375035146noreply@blogger.com